7th Annual Holiday Special: Mental Health, Addiction, and Burnout in Criminal Defense
In this special holiday episode of Andrew & Andrew on Texas Criminal Defense, we sit down with licensed professional counselor and chemical dependency specialist Christopher Seals to discuss one of the most important — and often overlooked — topics in the legal profession: mental health, addiction, and burnout.
For criminal defense attorneys, the holiday season can bring added stress, emotional strain, and increased exposure to clients dealing with substance abuse, trauma, anxiety, and depression. In this conversation, we explore how mental health challenges affect both defenders and their clients, and what practical steps lawyers can take to recognize warning signs and support those who may be struggling.
In this episode, we discuss:
Common warning signs of substance abuse and mental health struggles
Why burnout is especially common among criminal defense attorneys
How addiction and mental health issues intersect with criminal cases
Why the holidays can trigger relapse, stress, or emotional crisis
Practical ways to check in with colleagues, clients, and yourself
The “wellness wheel” model and how small improvements build long-term stability
How attorneys can better understand the human issues behind criminal charges
Whether you’re a Texas criminal defense lawyer, legal professional, or someone interested in the connection between mental health and the justice system, this episode offers insight into how personal wellness and professional advocacy intersect.
If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health or substance use, resources and support are available.
Learn more about Christopher Seals and his counseling practice at:
👉 sealslpc.com
Andrew Herreth 0:02
Do not know peace. Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a very special holiday edition of Andrew and Andrew on Texas criminal defense. This is our seventh annual holiday special. My name is Andrew Herreth, and serenading us is the classically trained Andrew Decker. How's it going? I was gonna add something after classically trained, but I My mind went blank, so
Andrew Decker 0:47
it sounds like I was singing in Latin. You were
Andrew Herreth 0:50
doing, man, it's Latin. We didn't rehearse this. So this is that's, it was wonderful, wonderful. Decker, very proud of you, sir and your talents.
Andrew Decker 1:02
It means, it means, give us peace, which I figured for a holiday special, is something we would all want,
Andrew Herreth 1:07
yeah, and I heard peace in there, yeah, the poncha, yeah. Okay, all right. Well, I took two years of Latin in high school. I remember zero, but I
Andrew Decker 1:22
took no Latin in high school, and I remember a lot, because you have to learn it for singing.
Andrew Herreth 1:26
Yeah, I thought it would help. I wanted to, I didn't know if I wanted to go to law school or or medical school. And I was like, oh, Latins gotta, gotta help with those right now. It doesn't I should have taken Spanish. Anyways, how are you, sir, you doing? Well, I'm good.
Andrew Decker 1:43
I'm good. I'm getting ready for the holidays and excited about our guest. I saw him. I saw him at Thanksgiving. We have had a few non attorneys on the show in six and a half years, but this is the first time where we've had someone who's actually related to either one of
Andrew Herreth 2:02
us. And why don't you explain that to our defenders
Andrew Decker 2:04
out there? All right, so our guest today is Christopher seals. He is a counselor. He is my son in law. He married my son Austin, back in May of this year, and looking well, have a few great wedding pictures from that, and I know that I'm going to get another one for Christmas. I've already been told by my son, so it's not a surprise.
Christopher Seals 2:31
Welcome Christopher. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. So one
Andrew Decker 2:36
of the things that Christopher and I talk about is that we think we we don't know that we have any actual client in common, but our clients are in common,
Andrew Herreth 2:45
yeah, absolutely, definitely, just a little broken, right? So that makes sense, right?
Andrew Decker 2:55
So part of that is because Christopher focuses, one of his focus is, is addiction specialist, right? Absolutely.
Christopher Seals 3:05
I am a licensed professional counselor and a licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor here in Texas, so I focus a lot with substance use and abuse, trauma, anxiety and depression.
Andrew Herreth 3:16
Well, tell us a little about yourself. How'd you get into that work. Yeah.
Christopher Seals 3:21
So, funny enough. I actually was on the pre law track in college with a bachelor's in psychology, took the dreaded LSAT and had everything prepared, and then kind of life hit me in the face, and I realized that for me, my my path was better served being a therapist and the other side of the counselor to people around me. I grew up in a small town in rural Southeast Missouri, and really saw the impacts of stigma of mental health and that people look back and look at it and go, Oh no, that person's just crazy, or oh no, they they have something wrong. We can't, we can't help them, and just look down. And so I kind of found my passion and calling in breaking that stigma down. And so I went in and got my masters of clinical mental health counseling after I graduated with my bachelor's, and the rest is history.
Andrew Herreth 4:21
Good, yeah, way to make the smart decision not go to law school. I mean, we would have loved to have you, but sounds like you found your place.
Andrew Decker 4:28
You know. Andy, some of us actually like being attorneys.
Andrew Herreth 4:33
I love being an attorney most of the time. But, you know, I mean, I think this is a, this is probably, like, a good episode to discuss this on. Like, there are, there are times, moments, however long, where I really don't like it. I mean, I have suffered. I we've talked about on the show, like, I've suffered from depression, I've suffered from burnout. Uh, with work and just like, a lack of fulfillment, and this is a really dangerous time of year for a lot of our defenders who may be feeling the same way they often, you know, turn to not the best means for, like, coping, right?
Andrew Decker 5:18
Well, and not just our defenders, but our clients?
Andrew Herreth 5:21
Oh, yeah. I mean absolutely our clients. And I do think that understanding a little bit of this does help us represent those people who do struggle with addiction or mental health disorders. Yes, absolutely. So that being said, Chris, we will shut up. Why don't you tell us, like, what? So you're you, you, your practice is on addiction, recovery, what else?
Christopher Seals 5:48
So I see clients that are battling anxiety, depression, trauma, substance use, and I focus a lot on building general well being. That's how I kind of approach it. A lot of times I'll step away from some of the labels of the diagnosis, and we just go in and find how to make ourselves well again. Yeah.
Andrew Herreth 6:11
I mean, that seems like it's a pretty tall order, though
Christopher Seals 6:15
sometimes it is. I mean, you hit the nail on the head earlier with talking about burnout and our own struggles. It's one of those things that it comes for all of us, and sometimes we have to take care of ourselves in order to take care of the people that we serve, the people we care about. And a lot of times I have to remind myself to one of the questions I was posed in grad school of who heals the healer, and sometimes it's knowing that we have to heal ourselves in order to heal others.
Andrew Herreth 6:48
Yeah, there's a chapter in the aa big book, Doctor heal thyself, that's that's actually pretty compelling story for those of you who are interested in so so like, when, as a professional, and this is not on the itinerary, when you, when you have a new client coming in, and your end goal is like, let's just, let's just get you. Well, what is that? How like, practically speaking, what does that look like, like? How are you? How does that work?
Christopher Seals 7:23
Yeah, that's a great question, and it's very unique to each person. You know, as we go through everybody's struggles and issues are unique to them. They may be dealing with similar overarching issues, you know, anxiety, depression, substance use, however, their response to it is unique, and so we have to uniquely explore their story. And with that, it's going to be a lot of tell me what you feel is not working for you right now. What made you reach out at this point? What has been the red flag for you to go something's not quite right, and from there, we just peel back layer by layer until we find those pieces that are a little more jagged than the rest, and we start down a little bit.
Andrew Herreth 8:11
Yeah, yeah. I mean, like,
Andrew Decker 8:15
go ahead, yeah. The jagged piece, I think, is, you know, it's one things that Andy and I talk about is that sometimes when, when we sit down with a new client, we see the obvious, jagged piece, right? They were caught with drugs in the car, or they didn't. They couldn't see the STOP sign that said, stop pursuing this woman, right? You know, harassment or stalking or that had gone from being yelling to being physical. So sometimes we see the outward jagged sign, but it's it. What we don't get into is the more inward, jagged piece that I think you're talking about, right?
Christopher Seals 9:01
Chris, absolutely. And one of the pieces of that is just finding the ability and comfort to be able to say that there is something that is not working the way that I would like it to or is not as efficient in my day to day life, whether that's, you know, my sleep, my irritability, mood, etc, when those things feel off, we notice it, but a lot of times we'll bury it down because we're busy, or I don't have time to deal with this, or I can't imagine what someone's going to think of if they know that I'm struggling with this. And so that stigma creeps back in, and we'll either glaze over it, or we will move on to something else or minimize it. And so that inward reflection is really important. You know, it's, I don't want to say it's easy to see the outwardly jagged pieces, but it's more prevalent to see them at least. But sometimes we've got to dig a little deeper. And kind of you. Find where the motivations are and are not.
Andrew Decker 10:04
Yeah, yeah. So getting to the jagged piece is your kind of job. But in, you know, with Andy and I, we are, this is our listeners are primarily defenders, and we're thinking about, how do we take care of ourselves and take care of each other? So what are some of the common signs that someone, whether it's an attorney or a client, might have a substance abuse disorder?
Christopher Seals 10:39
Yeah, and those warning signs are going to be nuanced and unique to everyone, like I was saying earlier, but some of those general signs that might raise concerns are noticing sudden and unexpected shifts or changes in mood, behavior or interactions, seeing someone that might be withdrawing socially or isolating themselves from loved ones or supports around them. Or if someone that you know, whether it's a defender or a client, that tells you about a hobby that they enjoy doing, all of a sudden, they say they haven't done it in three months, or they don't have time for this, and they have a loss of interest in the things that they used to enjoy. One of the biggest things that I look out for in all of my intakes, or when I get told symptoms is reported changes in sleep. Sleep is one of the biggest impacts on or biggest impactors on mental health. If we're not getting good sleep, we're not going to be able to have a good wellness, the machine is not going to be primed. And so paying attention to that is a big deal. Some of the others are noticing declines in physical appearance, whether it's hygiene or, you know, someone's appearing more disheveled, more often. And then we have some of the other ones like secretive behaviors, excessive defensiveness on topics. And then one tried and true is a noticeably, a noticeable shift in a neglectful responsibility at work, home, with family, any of those things can kind of be a tip off. And again, this is by no means an exhaustive or definitive list, but just one to help us identify that there might be a possible issue and to start a dialog for explore, exploration with either the client or your fellow defenders, just to kind of open that dialog up and see where it leads. There's a
Andrew Herreth 12:39
lot of overlap in the in those warning signs with with depression,
Andrew Decker 12:50
yeah, depression or just burnout, right? I mean, all those things will feel related, right? I mean, at some level, burnout, depression, sometimes then a substance abuse, are so interrelated. But you know, it's one of the things kind of funny, is if you watch TV, or you look at cartoons, the defense attorney is always the guy that's disheveled and coming in late and doesn't, you know, is eating a donut, you know, like, kind of on the way in. And I was like, as Chris was describing it, I was like, that's half of my colleagues and me, and me on a bad day. It's like, is it different in Harris County Andy,
Andrew Herreth 13:42
all defense attorneys in Harris County are very sharp on time, well dressed, physically fit,
Andrew Decker 13:48
wow, I need to move to Harris County. Yeah.
Andrew Herreth 13:54
So, okay, so, so, Christopher, if we notice something like that, and one of our friends or colleagues, maybe not a friend, but just somebody that, you know, we know. I mean, I would feel, I don't know if I would feel like it would be inappropriate for me to come up and say, like, Hey, are you okay? Is there? Is there recommended? I mean, you know, I mean I, I guess in my, in our work and defending people, I have recommended a lot of clients go see therapists, but like to somebody who's who I don't have that relationship as an attorney with, I think it would be highly inappropriate for me to be like, Hey, bro, you need therapy. What? Do we do in that instance? Or what can we do?
Christopher Seals 14:44
Fair, and that's that's a great question. A lot of times, when it comes to this, it's going to depend on your connection to them, your interaction. If you know you're at a place where you feel comfortable having a conversation with them, of, Hey, you. How are you doing? I know things have been stressful lately, you know, and just interacting in a conversation that way, and just allowing yourself to explore with them where they are, and then possibly give them resources and advice that you may give to a client or that you may have had from your own experience, and going from there, it doesn't have to be a direct walk up of the Hey, man, you're looking rough. Let's get you in with therapy. But instead just taking it at a very conversational approach, sometimes that's what someone needs, is just that kind of smile that knowing someone else's is there. It doesn't even have to be a deep connection. There just someone that's coming in saying, Hey, I see you, and I want to make sure you're all right.
Andrew Decker 15:49
Yeah, I've I've been amazed how often a simple,
Andrew Decker 15:55
you know, to a colleague, hey, you doing okay, especially if I know that something's happened. They've been sick, you know, something, you know, there's a little bit of a rumor. I'll just come up and go, you okay? Do you need, you know, if you need an ear, I'll be glad to take you for a cup of coffee or for a drink. Let me know, right? And I know that the drink may not be the right answer, but for some people, that's, that's how they're going to sit down and actually
Andrew Herreth 16:23
talk to you. I mean, that's true. That's how they that's how people are going to open up certainly, yeah. I mean, I, I feel like, you know, I don't know. We get told on social media or whatever, like, you don't know what other people are going through, so don't, you know, make assumptions based on, like, appearance or attitude or or, you know, or just general aura, I don't know. And so I always try to remember that, like, you know, somebody may be, like, struggling with some health issues, that they're not just advertising. And so to go up and say, like, man, you look like crap today, probably not like, which is a mistake I've made. But, but, yeah, it's, it's not a great idea, you know, but, but I, but, you know, I guess addressing it a little bit friendlier is, is is actually the answer, right?
Andrew Decker 17:23
Yeah, what you don't want is to have that phone call to the board, you know, here in Tarrant County, to the TCC, DLA board. And we get these occasionally. Hey, so and so was in court and stunk of alcohol this morning, and suddenly we're having this, you know, because nobody said, Hey, are you okay? Suddenly we're having to step in professionally to protect them and protect their license and protect the work they're doing in the courtroom. Yeah. And that does happen. I mean, it happens
Andrew Herreth 17:58
on Yeah, it happens. And for defenders, it happens more often than than everybody else I feel like, and I think also more often during this time of year. So like Christopher, what is it about the holidays that make it so difficult for people, not just defenders, but certainly, certainly defenders.
Christopher Seals 18:22
Yeah, well, let's look at the holidays a little more closely. You know, most of the time when we think of this time, it's festive and happy, but there's a lot of stress, conflict and strife that comes into the holidays with with some people, and a lot of times when it comes to, you know, substance use and why it kind of spikes around this time. We don't usually wake up in the morning and just go, You know what? Today I feel like I'm going to use instead. It's an unhealthy coping mechanism that we get to the point where we use it to escape stress, trauma, pain, etc. And this time of the year can really bring that out, whether it's, you know, family conflicts, or the loss of somebody, somebody's not here this year that was last year. Or I'm trying to do everything perfectly. I have to make sure that dinner is ready at this time for the guests when they show up. Or I've gotta make sure that I'm at the cantata at the right time. All these other pieces that are added on top of us still living our day to day life, sometimes that just creeps in and adds that extra stress, and sometimes it's just us trying to take a step back away from the stress. So this time of year can really add to that.
Andrew Decker 19:38
Yeah, it probably doesn't help that. On top of that stress, if you watch commercials, if you watch kind of what's supposed to happen, there's an idea that just alcohol, especially is just going to flow with these events, absolutely.
Christopher Seals 19:57
I mean, a lot of times when you. Will ask people, What are some of the things that you associate with holidays? People will go, oh, specifically, you know, with Christmas coming up, people will go, oh, gingerbread houses, cookies, eggnog. And then they go into all of these other things, of eggnogs associated with the alcohol that's in there. And we get this built in idea that it is baked into the holiday itself, and it doesn't have to be. It's just kind of what we're fed, as you were saying, of through commercials, interactions, social media, previous life histories and stories, memories, things like that. Yeah. So what are,
Andrew Decker 20:46
you know, the holidays are, in a sense, a trigger for people, but what are some things we can do as individuals? Right? Because, you know, next this is coming out on the 15th, the next week, most of us are going to be kind of home. We're not going to be around our colleagues, remember your own family, maybe not, to help us see that trigger and maybe be healthier by avoiding that trigger. What are some things we tools we can have?
Christopher Seals 21:14
Yeah, great question. I think first and foremost, we have to be honest and acknowledge and identify what those triggers are. It's easy to say, Yes, this time triggers me, but understanding what about this time triggers us is an important aspect. Knowing them is an important step in avoiding or diminishing them. But as we were just discussing, discussing, excuse me, sometimes triggers can't be entirely avoided. So having a strong coping plan that includes a diversified set of coping skills is important. Ones that I kind of lean into are good grounding skills, focusing on the senses around us, being very present in the moment. Urge surfing is another skill that I absolutely love. I actually think I talked to you and showed that to you at Thanksgiving. Andrew, of urge surfing, just riding the urge or the trigger like a wave. We know that it's right. Yeah, we get to the top of it, and then it falls, just like a wave, recognizing that, but also surrounding ourselves with supportive engagement. That can be a great distraction. If we're able to have supportive engagement, fantastic, whether that's one person or, you know, a gaggle of people, as long as it is keeping us grounded, distracted and moving towards progress, it's okay. I'm a big fan of whole self wellness when it comes to working towards trigger desensitization or diminishment, I like to really focus in on the eight areas of wellness. You know that being our physical wellness, intellectual, emotional, social, social, spiritual or existential, vocational and financial wellness
Andrew Decker 23:09
sounds related to to the hierarchy of needs?
Christopher Seals 23:14
Oh, absolutely. It's amazing how interconnected all a lot of these
Christopher Seals 23:20
pieces are. In some of these ideas, there's a lot of overlap between them. They build on each other. When it comes to the wellness, it is very much attached to that hierarchy of needs, feeling connected, feeling that we have our needs to feel secure, and when we feel secure, we're able to act more directly and intentionally when it comes to the eight areas of wellness. I always present them with clients as the wellness wheel. We want to look at them as eight spokes of our wellness wheel. And if one of those spokes isn't working or it's being neglected, we try to compensate in other areas, and it causes dissonance and dysfunction, and so it doesn't roll appropriately, or it doesn't work efficiently. So we start having our stressors compound, and we either reach out to other unhealthy coping mechanisms, or we have relapse. So allowing yourself to kind of dive into focusing on our whole self wellness is very important, specifically during this time of the year.
Andrew Decker 24:28
Yeah, well, that sounds like a lot of work. It is just gonna be honest. I'm listening to it going all the eight spokes, and I'm trying, and I'm going, that's that's hard. It's hard. I don't want to do that absolutely.
Christopher Seals 24:44
The good thing is, it is hard to get started, but once it started, once we're in motion, we tend to stay in motion. That whole principle of, you know, Rolling Stone doesn't gather moss. It really plays into. To this piece, and it's more about maintenance than anything else. One thing I will say over and over to my clients is we're not striving for perfection. We're striving for progress. Progress is the key here. We're not trying to get all eight of these spokes working all at once. If we know one of them's out of whack, we deal with the one and we build upon it. We use that motivation as fuel to continue our motivation. Otherwise we get overwhelmed. And I call that the Everest effect. It's us walking up to the base of Mount Everest and looking up and going, Wow, I don't know how I'm supposed to get to the top of that, but if we reframe that just a little bit and we go, I'm not getting to the top. I'm getting to base camp. From base camp, I'm getting the halfway point. From the halfway point, I'm getting to the top. It's much more palatable. It's much more manageable. And so we have to sometimes take that step of going, Yeah, this is a lot of work, but I'm not doing it all at once. I'm maintaining what I'm doing well, and I'm changing what needs to be changed slowly and steadily.
Andrew Decker 26:03
So if I'm I'm still fascinated by this eight spoke piece. If I look at and I kind of go, I've got, we'll say five spokes, or seem, seem to work pretty well, but three of them are out of whack. How do you How would you talk to a client or, you know, a friend, I know, you know, depending on who you're talking to which, which one of those? How do you decide which Broken Spoke is the one that needs the the urgent care, for lack of a better term, absolutely,
Christopher Seals 26:39
and that goes back to each individual client or person's unique story, what do they find most impactful for them, or what is the highest priority for them? Because that's where we're going to find the most motivation, and we can build from there. If that one turns out to be the one that's not the highest priority, we explore it. We dive into it and go, Okay, why is this the one that you want to work on? And if that's the one that we find has the highest motivation, sometimes, even if it's not the most urgent one, it's the best one to start with, because, again, we are getting that ball rolling, and we can capitalize on that momentum. It's much easier to make changes when we're already making improvements, then it is to start fresh and start cold and go, Well, we're going to start right here. So going where we're led sometimes is the most important piece, but honestly, it's just going to be prioritizing based on that person's needs and their situation.
Andrew Decker 27:40
All right, all right, that makes sense. So sometimes it's not about, it's not about because if you had asked me out of it, let's go for the most broken spoke. And what I'm hearing you say is go, go where the person's like I can handle or I want to do this assuming that whatever the one is, is, is healthy. Yeah, I want to build here to get them to get the wheel turning a little bit, and then you go, Okay, well, now you feel the hiccup in that other spoke, how do we? How do we, how do we make it less bumpy? Is that a bad analogy?
Christopher Seals 28:13
No, that's, that's a fantastic analogy with it. You know, it comes back to that Everest effect, that really big Broken Spoke there that looks like it's going to take a lot of work. We may try to avoid that because we don't feel like we have the bandwidth, or, as I tell clients all day, we don't have the marbles to deal with today. And so instead, we deal with the one that we can start making movement with. And then, as you said, once we start realizing that hiccup of that other Broken Spoke, we're able to kind of start honing in and making steady progress.
Andrew Decker 28:49
I like it. That makes sense that see this Herreth, this is why my job, and we let Chris do his job, yeah,
Andrew Herreth 28:59
yeah, yeah. Because I would, I would approach, like, just like, addressing a client, like, well, you know, stop stealing from Walmart. You know, you're, you've been, you've hired me on three thefts in the past year. Let's stop stealing from Walmart. How about
Andrew Decker 29:13
that? And, no, that doesn't mean go to Home Depot.
Andrew Herreth 29:16
Yeah, right. No, that's exactly, that's exactly right, yeah. And Chris would be, like, interesting. Tell me more. What about that? And maybe that's a way I can evolve, you know, and offer a better service. I do try and talking with Decker. I know he tries this too, like people who come to us, or we're appointed on we try to put them, we try to make their life better if we can address the underlying issue. We try to do that. We are very limited in what we can do, legally and ethically, but sometimes, you know, talking with people. I give all my juvenile clients like a five year plan. They have to do a five year plan to me, just so they, you know, they have something that they're working on and maybe doing that they can identify some of those spokes that are, you know, missing or shortened, or whatever, absolutely,
Andrew Decker 30:19
absolutely, yeah, the the difference for when a client comes to us or goes to to you, is there, if they're coming to, you know, like, somebody will call and, you know, you ask them how they're doing, and they'll ask, I'm doing? I'm like, Well, I'm doing better than you, because you've had to call me today, right? Yeah, so call us. They, right, they or someone they love is in crisis if they're calling me or
Andrew Herreth 30:52
Herreth, yeah,
Christopher Seals 30:54
and that's why, one of the first questions I ask on any consultations I do, on any intakes that I do is what made you reach out today? What's what has been the motivation, or what was the final straw for you to say, you know, what, I want to reach out to get a little more support, because I want to normalize that request, but I also want to know what was the tipping point, you know? How can we use that to guide progress or movement, yeah.
Andrew Herreth 31:26
Or kind of off topic, Christopher, are you seeing clients in person, on Zoom, more now, or are you back in the office full time? Like, what? How are you actually seeing clients?
Christopher Seals 31:39
Yeah, currently, I have a very tell telehealth, heavy caseload, and I see a lot of clients throughout the DFW area. However, I have some clients in remote West Texas. I have clients that are in Austin, Harris County, Texas, down there, near Houston. So I have clients all across the state, but I have a very big telehealth caseload, and I think that that has been a blessing and a curse. Blessing in the fact that I can meet my clients truly where they are. Instead of us saying, you know, hey, we're going to meet you where you are and kind of be there, I can truly meet them where they are and it's more comfortable and convenient for them to be able to open up a lot. They don't have that I have to go to a new place that I don't know, to talk about the inner workings of myself and be vulnerable. They can do it in a space that is convenient and comfortable for them. So in that regard, it has truly helped cut to the quick. But on the other side, you know, some of my clients, I have to refer out from telehealth to in person, because they need that support, or they need to have somebody that they're seeing in person that can help give them those resources in person, walk them to those resources at times as well. And so it is a kind of give and take.
Andrew Herreth 33:05
Yeah, interesting. Okay, I just didn't know if you know, covid changed our world a lot, just like somebody else's. So I didn't know if you know how, how much it affected the therapy slash counseling landscape,
Christopher Seals 33:22
absolutely it really did force us to speed up our telehealth capabilities. And I would say that really did help us to get to a place where we can meet clients more efficiently and more genuinely where they are.
Andrew Herreth 33:40
Yeah, no, I love it. I love I do all my discovery work over zoom. I mean, it's, it is the the online teleconferencing revolution from covid is really improved my practice. But enough about me.
Andrew Decker 34:00
So the one question that we put up, but in our, you know, we sent you out a list that I don't know, that we addressed, and I'm actually really curious about, is what, what is kind of the common idea of how, or what is the, is there a general understanding of how common a substance abuse disorder is in the United States? I really don't know
Christopher Seals 34:21
it's actually very common. According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration or SAMHSA, their last survey in 2024 they had 16 point 8 million individuals that were above the age of 12 that reported having a substance use issue in the previous year, and in that same time period, we had drug use disorders increase from 8.7% to 9.8% of the population. It's it's something that's very prevalent and very common, and it's one of the reasons why in my practice, I strive very hard to. To battle some of the stigma around it, of this doesn't affect me, or it won't affect me, or it's not important until it affects me. Kind of branching out our knowledge is very important there.
Andrew Decker 35:11
So basically, for the people who can't catch numbers quickly, about 10%
Christopher Seals 35:19
at times, yeah. And breaking that down even further for the demographic of 18 to 25 at the highest reporting in that survey, it was at 25% so young adults really are impacted at a higher rate.
Andrew Decker 35:40
Yeah. Holy schmoly, yeah.
Christopher Seals 35:43
It's scary. And again, the even scarier part of that, in my opinion, is these are self reported survey results. So these are people who are willing to come out and say on a survey, yes, I struggled with substance use in this last year. That doesn't take into account the people that didn't feel comfortable doing that, or weren't able to admit to themselves at that point that it was causing an issue. So these can be even higher, but it's a scary number, no matter which way you slice it.
Andrew Decker 36:15
Yeah, it is a scary number. And one of the things I Harris, heard me say several times, is, if it weren't for drugs and alcohol, we would be out of business, and I would be glad to be out of business.
Andrew Herreth 36:30
We wouldn't. We would have very
Andrew Decker 36:34
little work if we could solve that problem, and I know we can't. We can help a few people along the way, but truly, let me, let me go. Let me go work at Whataburger or build lump, you know, furniture or something, because it would mean that that most crime as we know it would not exist if we could solve a drug and alcohol problem.
Christopher Seals 37:03
Absolutely, definitely has a disproportionate impact. Yeah.
Andrew Decker 37:06
Herreth, you got any more questions before we hit our final three?
Andrew Herreth 37:12
No, thank you so much, Christopher, this has really been enlightening. I hope it helps some of our defenders out there. Yeah.
Andrew Decker 37:20
So Chris fry, we sent you the three questions we ask of every guest, and it's been a while since we've actually had a guest have to answer the questions because they've been repeat or something like that. So it took me a second to think of the third one when I was typing up the list. But the first one is fairly simple. What's your favorite band or musical artist or one that you're like, I listen to this one a lot right now, absolutely.
Christopher Seals 37:42
So there were a few from this artist or set of artists at the wedding that you heard. I'm a big fan of the chicks, so I will listen to their music all the time. Their harmonies just they move me as someone who was in choir all through high school and college, their voices just always move me, whether it's you know, they're light hearted songs like goodbye Earl or Yeah, the cover of landslide, all of them, just their voices do amazing things for me. Yeah.
Andrew Decker 38:20
And for those of you who are old enough, they used to be the Dixie Chicks, and they realized that that was important to say, yeah. I was going to say not kosher, favorite book or one you recommend to people, hopefully not professionally fair.
Christopher Seals 38:38
So my favorite book is actually the Song of Achilles by Madeleine Miller, and that also made an appearance at our wedding. And it is a book that I have read multiple times, and I'll probably read it in the next few weeks again, just because I'm wrapping up the end of the year. And it it makes me happy.
Andrew Decker 39:02
Good book. I recommended it on the show because I read it because Austin said, Hey, this is going to be in the wedding.
Andrew Herreth 39:08
Yeah, interesting. All right, that'll be on my list. What about the best piece of advice you've been given or one you give out to others?
Christopher Seals 39:16
So the best piece of advice that I have been given is from a professor in my grad program that told us to not try to be the best, but instead strive to be adequate and build to be better. From there, at first, I was taken aback by that I'm a very competitive person by nature, and I wanted to be the best counselor out there, but he explained it that if we were focused on being the best, we're putting ourselves in a trap of comparison to other successes and measuring our success by the measure of others. And it's very dangerous as comparison is truly the theft of joy, and it will keep us stuck in a self imposed trap of comparison that is unmoving.
Andrew Herreth 40:01
I try to, I try to say that all the time. Comparison is the theft is the thief of joy. Yeah, and, and that's, that's wonderful, wonderful advice. What about Yeah? Go ahead, I
Christopher Seals 40:16
was gonna say the piece of advice that I give out to most of my clients. And just people around me is a quote from Dr Seuss, unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing's going to get better. It's not It's simple and powerful. Yeah.
Andrew Herreth 40:36
Love Dr Seuss, me too. What about do you have a website? How can, if somebody's listening, they just want to, want to talk things over with you? How can they get in touch with you?
Christopher Seals 40:49
Yeah, my website is seals, lpc.com, so my last name, S, E, A, l, s, l, p, c.com, and it has all of my contact information there. It has a way for people to book directly with me. It has my email, fax, all the ways you can get in touch with me.
Andrew Herreth 41:10
Wonderful. Seals, LP, Sc, seals license, LPC, licensed professional counselor. Yeah, that makes sense. Seals and old PC. Very good. Nice.
Andrew Decker 41:25
All right. Well, Chris, thank you for being on the show. It it was enlightening. It was is some several points hard, because I can see, see work that I need to do with my own self, and Lord, I know it needs to be done with Andy. Oh, wait, sorry, did I say that all the way? What Andrew holding each other accountable?
Andrew Herreth 41:51
I will say that. You know this, Decker and I used to like see each other because we office together. So we see each other daily. We talk daily. And since I've moved to Houston, I don't see him as much, but he does a great job. He's a great friend. He does a great job of keeping in contact with me, asking how I'm doing, how's work, how's life, etc. So that, sir is very much appreciated.
Andrew Decker 42:17
All right, and well, and I miss the fact that we don't see each other as often, but we do keep in contact, wise in that process. So Andy, have a Happy Christmas. Merry New Year. We think we have a show coming. We're working on a guest for the January one episode. Stay in touch. If you want to reach out to Christopher seals. We'll put his contact in the show notes. That's Andy's job, not mine, yep, but make sure you leave a review. Let people know that we're here. And yes, people who reach out get to be on the show. Our last show with the West Texas stories, the one before that, with Courtney Miller, the next show, are all people that reached out and said, Hey, I've got something. I've got a crazy story to put on the show. And we're like, let's do it. Let's put it out there. So for Andrew Herreth, I'm Andrew Decker,
Andrew Herreth 43:16
and for Andrew Decker, I'm Andrew Herreth, y'all be good. You.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai